Historical Commission Endorses Memorial Green for Bedford Street Site
Globe Mills Project on Track for Fall Construction
Little Theater Roof Nearing Completion
Anawan Fire Station Window Restoration Progress
City Council Approval Needed for 40C Expansion
The Fall River Historical Commission held its regular meeting on July 21st, chaired by Rick Mancini. The commission approved the minutes from their June 16th meeting. During citizen's input, resident Jason Caminiti proposed that the former police station site at 158 Bedford Street, which is being demolished for $1.4 million, be converted into a memorial green for first responders. The commission voted unanimously to send a letter of support for this proposal to the Mayor's office and the City Council. Commissioner Joyce Rodericks provided a comprehensive update on the 11-year effort to preserve the WPA-era Mann Murals in the old Bixby Tech building, noting the school department has committed $7,200 for a test run of high-resolution digital photography to create copies. Under new business, the commission unanimously approved a letter of support for the Globe Mills redevelopment project, after hearing from consultant Michael LaFlash that construction is slated to begin in the fall. The commission also approved a proposal from homeowner Don Corriveau to restore the porch at his historic granite home at 690 County Street to its original 1897 single-story design, removing a deteriorated second-story addition. The approval was made contingent on the chairman's review of final drawings. City Councilor Christopher M. Peckham, Sr. announced the successful coordination to move a significant 1659 stone marker from the Freeman's Purchase, with plans to relocate it to the Fall River Historical Society for preservation and public display. The meeting concluded with status updates on several ongoing projects, including the Little Theater, Central and Anawan fire stations, the Bank Street Armory, and the expansion of the 40C historic district.
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Council
City Officials
Public Safety
Public / Other
Good evening.
0:01I'm Rick Mancini, Chairman of the Historic Commission for the City of Fall River.
0:06It is 5— 6:05, Tuesday, July 21st, and we are meeting at One Government Center on the first floor in the hearing room.
0:16Pursuant to open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.
0:25Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.
0:36Our recording clerk this evening is Felicia Parker.
0:38She's sitting at my right.
0:40And the meeting is being televised and recorded by Greg Salvador of the Fall River Government TV.
0:47Present this evening are Commissioners Jonathan Lima, Commissioner Ken Shagdak, Commissioner Joyce Rodericks, Commissioner Caroline Aubin and Commissioner Ryan Klein.
1:01And our clerk for this evening again is Felicia.
1:05Felicia, have all petitions been properly advertised and all interested parties been notified in advance with the rules and regulations of the Historic Commission?
1:13Yes.
1:14Okay, I hereby declare Tuesday, July 21st, a regular scheduled meeting of the Historical Commission for the City of Fall River open for such business and shall resume before us.
1:27Okay, let's get started this evening.
1:29It's a rainy, cold, chilly night.
1:32Unexpected, huh?
1:34Uh, first order of the business today is open meeting law notices.
1:39We have received none.
1:40Can we have a roll call?
1:42Jonathan, would you start please?
1:43Jonathan Lima, present.
1:45Ken Shattuck, present.
1:47Joyce Rodericks, present.
1:49Caroline Aubin, present.
1:51Ryan Klein, present.
1:53And Rick Mancini, present.
1:55Could I have an approval of the minutes of June 16th?
1:59Motion to approve minutes June 16th.
2:01Second.
2:02First and a second.
2:05We'll take a vote.
2:06Jonathan?
2:07Yes.
2:08Yes.
2:09Joyce?
2:09Yes.
2:10Caroline?
2:11Yes.
2:11Ryan Klein?
2:12Yes.
2:12And Rick Mancini?
2:14Yes.
2:15Next would be citizens' input, and I believe we have Jason Caminiti who wants to talk about the Bedford Street properties.
2:30One moment, Jason.
2:31I'd like to, in advance, have a motion that we extend the timeframe from 3 minutes to whatever's necessary, because this might be on the lengthy side.
2:40Do I have a motion?
2:41I move that we extend the timeframe.
2:44We have a first and a second.
2:46Do we take a quick vote?
2:47Jonathan?
2:48Yes.
2:49Yes.
2:49Joyce?
2:50Yes.
2:51Yes.
2:51Ryan Klein?
2:52Yes.
2:52Rick Mancini?
2:53Yes.
2:54Introduce yourself, Jason.
2:56Good evening.
2:56My name is Jason Caminiti.
2:57I live at 544 High Street in the Historic Highlands.
3:00And I previously served on the Fall River Park Commission.
3:04For over a century, 158 Bedford Street was home to the Fall River Police Department.
3:08Generations of officers started their shifts there and walked out the door to answer the city's calls.
3:13Some of them never returned.
3:15Developers had decades to do something with that building.
3:18They delivered nothing.
3:19Now it's coming down and taxpayers are paying $1.4 million to do it.
3:24The city, the city said the building was an emergency.
3:27That's fine.
3:28The building was an emergency.
3:30The lot is not an emergency.
3:32So the question tonight isn't whether the building comes down.
3:34It's what goes in its place, and so far nobody has said.
3:38I think that the site should become a memorial green for the first responders of Fort Worth Police, firefighters, EMS, and emergency management.
3:44A small green space, a simple memorial with the names of those who served, a few benches, some shade, and the sign and the pillar from the old building kept right there, not dropped in a warehouse where they'll disappear.
3:57There's a debt worth remembering here.
3:59When the current station on Pleasant Street was built, the city took about 3 acres of Britlin Park.
4:04That land was never replaced.
4:05This lot is only a third of an acre.
4:07It wouldn't square that debt, but it would be a start, and it would be— put the ground back to public use.
4:13I know this commission cannot create a park, but I— but it can ask.
4:17I am asking for one more thing, that this commission requests that no permanent decision about this parcel be made without public process.
4:25The public paid to clear it.
4:26The public should have a say in what comes next.
4:28Forever has a habit of letting things decay until a decision gets made for us.
4:31Let's at least make the right call this time.
4:33Thank you.
4:36Do we have any questions?
4:38Any comments?
4:41Cheap shots.
4:42Okay.
4:44There was a request made that we should notify— who would you feel should be notified?
4:53Administration?
4:54City Councilors?
4:55I don't know.
4:56Um, okay, certainly the— I've notified the city councilors.
4:59I've let them know that this is something that I've asked for.
5:02Okay, they have been made aware.
5:03Yeah, probably the Parks Department would be the next place, but, uh, or the park chair, rather, the commission.
5:09The, um, the issue is that when it's not a building anymore, I don't know how much control you have over it, but it is a historic ground, and it has been used for centuries, or a century, to, uh, to house police.
5:22So, it's something that I'd like to see be used again for something that's not a parking lot.
5:31Okay.
5:31Would there be— would a motion be in order that we present either the chair or a chair and a few of the members to the Park Board?
5:46Is that something that you think would— Is that who makes the decision?
5:49The Park Board?
5:50No, but the Park Board has a lot of input into construction and maintenance of parks.
5:56Creation of parks?
5:57Yes.
5:58Yeah, this would end up going eventually through the City Council and everything, for the full public process.
6:04All right.
6:08Is the Historical Commission in favor of creating, or does it need further discussion?
6:16Well, I think, I don't think anyone would be opposed to creating a park there.
6:21I just don't know that there's any jurisdiction, for lack of a better term, with the Historical Commission, especially once the building's down.
6:32I mean, you could try to write a letter to someone and see if you have some weight with them, but there's no official correlation between the Historical Commission and a vacant lot of property.
6:48So would a letter of support be a suggestion to administration, City Council, and park departments from the Historical Commission?
6:59Is that what I'm hearing a motion for?
7:03A park as opposed to probably any other number of unsavory, like parking lot?
7:13We don't know.
7:15Speculation, but we don't want to go on speculation as to what's being proposed.
7:22But, you know, this sounds like an excellent choice for a piece of property.
7:30And that area is growing quite a bit.
7:33A lot of apartments coming up in that area, and they have no green space.
7:37So this might be a nice adjunct to the— I will forward a motion that we as a board endorse the proposed idea in a letter to A, the mayor's office, and B, the city council.
7:54I would say, knowing that it has no binding weight, but it is an endorsement by this body.
7:59Exactly.
8:00I would say Okay, first and second it.
8:03Can we have a vote on that?
8:05Councilman Lima, yes.
8:07Ken Schrader, yes.
8:08Joyce, yes.
8:09Caroline Aubin, yes.
8:11Ryan Klein, yes.
8:12And Rick Mancini, yes.
8:15Okay, thank you very much.
8:16Thanks a lot.
8:22All right, next we have notice of intent to demolish.
8:2615 Robeson Street, there was a letter of non-applicability for demolition.
8:31The property is not listed on the significant structures list, so that was not an issue.
8:38We did receive a call from the contractor at the Diamond Vocational High School property, and they were looking for, I guess, a letter of non-applicability to take down the older schools.
8:53And again, that's not on a historic list of any sort.
8:56It's not on the Significant Structures, nor State or National Register.
9:01So again, a letter was issued of non-applicability for that.
9:06Any questions on either one of those?
9:09Okay.
9:11Correspondence.
9:12Congratulations to Commissioner Joyce Roderick and Commissioner Connie Soule, who is absent this evening.
9:19For for your reappointment, so you're all set again for a few more years.
9:23Thank you.
9:24Welcome for staying on board.
9:28There was a any questions about that?
9:31Any no nothing.
9:33Congratulations Joyce.
9:36A Michaela Laguina from the Roger Williams University.
9:43She was putting together a letter, and we all have a copy of that, which was rather nice.
9:53What it did is it highlighted Roger Williams University and it highlighted Fall River.
10:03So, I guess, would anybody want to have that letter read, or are you pretty Pretty well satisfied with the information?
10:12Very satisfied.
10:13It was beautifully done.
10:16Any highlights in there that you thought were striking?
10:21None?
10:23Okay.
10:24All right.
10:25It was just a good letter.
10:26It was talking about the Steep Brook area, and how they've worked with us for a number of years, and how they're going to continue to support us.
10:36Working on a lot of our historic sites and historic endeavors.
10:40And, they also jumped into the last area that they were working on was the lower cultural district, waterfront cultural district.
10:48So, they did mention that also.
10:51All right.
10:52We have the Mann murals that are situated in the old Bickby Tech building.
10:59And, I guess, Joyce, you might want to talk about that.
11:02I, I would.
11:03I don't mind if you want to move me down to number 4 so that the, uh, other issues can precede me.
11:14No, this is, this is correspondence, and you sent that to me.
11:17Oh, okay.
11:18I'd like you to just discuss that, and we'll move on to new business.
11:22Shall I take the table?
11:25Uh, you, you might.
11:26Sure, sure, you may.
11:29Well, I just want to add a little bit.
11:37I just want to discuss the status and give us a brief update.
11:44Yeah, I will be brief.
11:53Again, I believe in your packets you all have that A memorandum in there.
12:10All right, I just want to, um, I will be brief.
12:14I know this is a long project.
12:16I've been working on saving the man murals for 11 years.
12:23Um, what you have in your package is a summary of what's been going on.
12:31Um, it all started with a letter that I wrote to the editor of the Herald News in 2015.
12:40Um, we have a lot of new members on the board, so I'm not sure if you're familiar with the topic, but I'll briefly tell you a little bit about it.
12:56The only other issue would be, Jonathan, did you graduate before 1978 from Durfee High School?
13:04No, I wasn't born before 1978.
13:07Okay, okay, so you're not familiar with what I'm going to talk about.
13:13So if you want graduated from Durfee before 1978 and after 1940, which doesn't put me there, you're familiar with the Mann Murals that you see in your package.
13:28This page, the Mann Murals are in the Tech Auditorium, which is located on Rock Street, across the street from the Durfee Building.
13:43They are extremely valuable.
13:47They tell the story of Fall River from the Wampanoag Indians all the way through the textile period.
13:58They are the only contiguous collection of WPA morals in the— murals in the United States.
14:10Okay?
14:11I'm going to say that again.
14:12They are the only contiguous collection of WPA murals.
14:18You can go anywhere else and you can talk about WPA murals, but they're usually in post offices, or they're here or they're there.
14:26They're not in a contiguous story like you see in this picture.
14:33You're also going to see the fact that when I got in there, I noticed that they were subject to water damage.
14:42So my efforts initially were to stop the water damage, which the city of Fall River did and the school department did.
14:53So in this summary that you have on the back sheet, there is a commitment there from the school department to correct the issue of water damage.
15:06And they did that beautifully.
15:09They actually replaced the roof.
15:14So that was the first issue, correct the water damage so that damage would not happen to this valuable collection.
15:23The second thing at the top of your summary sheet is the examination that was done by Peter Williams, who is the state of Massachusetts authority on WPA murals.
15:41He conducted a survey of the murals and he found that they could not be moved and they could not be peeled off the wall because they are adhesed— part of the adhesive to the wall is hazardous material.
15:59So there are— his recommendation was to clean them or copy them.
16:08And that's where we are at this point.
16:122 theories about cleaning and/or copying them.
16:18Um, then we, then we ran into limitations on working this due to COVID.
16:28You couldn't get in the building, you couldn't see or do anything with this project.
16:35Um, superintendents came and went.
16:38We have a new superintendent who's not familiar with this project.
16:43Um, that was another issue.
16:47So the operating officer, Ken Pacheco, who's been responsible for the building and replacing the roof, he and I have had long discussions.
16:58I've sent this email to him, um, asking him to give us a status on the project.
17:09I have not heard back from him, but today I did call his clerk, and I have to tell you that clerks are running very effectively in the school department and in the city hall.
17:25She made a commitment to me that she would speak to him directly and ask him to reply to this letter.
17:35To this email.
17:36And that's where we are right now.
17:38Um, the school committee has committed $7,200 for a test run of digital images of these murals.
17:51If the digital copies work and they produce copies that will be clear and precise and the impression that the artists have told me that high-resolution digital photography will be accurate.
18:11We don't know until we try it.
18:14So the commitment right now from the school department is to assess whether or not digital photography will work in making copies.
18:26If that doesn't work, the CPC— and I think you monitor that, Mr. Chairman— the CPC is interested in cleaning them, in cleaning them or making them available to the public, maybe through FRAC or tours periodically, so that at least they can be appreciated and seen.
18:51Right now they're in the auditorium, nobody sees them.
18:55They've been locked in there since 1978.
19:00It's part of the triage, Jonathan, of the new Durfee Building.
19:06So when Durfee was built, they had the bells, they had the chimes, they had the observatory.
19:15Stick to the murals.
19:16But they didn't have the murals.
19:18Stay on subject.
19:20And, and I can understand that because where were they?
19:24They were locked away and nobody was even aware of them.
19:27Nobody even thought of them.
19:28They left the building and they just turned the key.
19:31Right now the auditorium is kind of like a storage area.
19:37So I'm waiting to hear from Ken Pacheco, and you will see me again.
19:42You will see me again.
19:43I hope it's not 11 years from now.
19:46Thank you.
19:46I'll be able to give you a clearer view of where the school department wants to go.
19:52Good.
19:53Thank you for that presentation.
19:54And, uh, I have someone that might be able to do that digitizing for it.
20:02I, I did.
20:03I do.
20:03We've, um, over the years we've investigated that carefully.
20:09It's a specialized kind of photography.
20:14And we have 2 companies in mind, but it is a bidding process, so that has to be, um, someone who knows how to do that, not me.
20:24I don't know how to do the bidding process.
20:27Okay, well, thank you very much for your presentation.
20:29I'll be available in the lobby.
20:32I don't want to interfere with the rest of the program because it's a pending issue.
20:38But I want to keep it visible right now and make sure that we're going to follow through on what the school committee wants.
20:46Okay, thank you.
20:51Okay, thank you very much.
20:55Next, we're going to go into new business, and Mr. Ed Hamzanhoos from Mascan Capital I guess he's going to present.
21:06He's looking for a letter of support for the Globe Mills property.
21:11Ed, are you available?
21:14This is Michael LaFlash.
21:16I'm on the project team with Ed, here on his behalf.
21:21Okay, Mike.
21:21Well, welcome aboard.
21:23Can you just give us a little— Thank you.
21:25Give us a little background again on the Globe Mills, and where your process is, and where the progress is?
21:31Of course, and I'll ask forgiveness as we start here.
21:34The internet has been cutting in and out on my end, which is why I'm not on camera.
21:38Forgive me.
21:40But I am the historic preservation consultant on the project team, working on all the historic tax credit applications, things of that nature.
21:48Presently, there have been no design changes recently to the project.
21:52But some good news is that we are on target to start construction in the fall.
21:59And so that's our tentative schedule.
22:01And hopefully, you know, as we get to the next letter, request letter, around December, we can say that shovels have been in the ground and construction work has commenced.
22:13Okay.
22:15Any questions from the board?
22:17Any concerns?
22:20Michael, that was originally proposed for somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 apartments.
22:26Am I correct?
22:28Yes.
22:29Yeah.
22:29And there were— there was an outbuilding that you were concerned with.
22:33You were going to make a decision as to whether it was going to be part of the complex.
22:38Is that still part of the complex, or is it going to be eliminated?
22:45Uh, there are no outbuildings at Globe, at least our building at Globe.
22:51The Globe Mills complex does cut a little bit further down on both Globe and Griffin Streets.
22:57There is a second mill building in there, as well as an engine house and boiler house, but those are not under Ed's control and are not part of our project.
23:07Okay, thank you.
23:10All right, well, do we— are we ready for a vote?
23:13No questions?
23:15All right, could I have a motion to accept?
23:17And support a letter of support?
23:19Motion to, uh, provide a letter of support.
23:23Okay, do I have a second?
23:25I'll second that.
23:26We have a vote.
23:28Yes.
23:29Yes.
23:30Joyce?
23:30Yes.
23:31Yes.
23:32Ryan Klein?
23:33Yes.
23:33Rick Mancini?
23:34Yes.
23:35Okay, Michael, thank you very much.
23:36Well, then the next day or two we'll get a letter out to you for support of the Globe Mills project.
23:42Thank you.
23:42Thank you all very much.
23:46All right, next, Mr. Corriveau.
23:49If you could just give us your name and your address and proceed.
23:54Okay, I'm Don Corriveau from 690 County Street, and this is Michael from Seaberg Construction out of Johnston, Rhode Island, who we're working with and coming up with some plans.
24:19Before actually beginning, I can sense a real strong interest and appreciation for history in this room, so I want to take 2 minutes just to tell you a little history about 690 County Street.
24:30Certainly.
24:31In the late 1800s, we had several granite quarries quarries in the city, as you may know, and one of them was owned by a Mr. Israel Picard.
24:43His ledge, as they called some of the quarries at the time, was on the bottom of Eastern Avenue approaching the overpass going to Breton Avenue, directly across from McGowan Street.
25:02So it was on the other side facing McGowan Street.
25:04That was his ledge.
25:07So he decided to buy— build a showcase out of granite, and the building was built between 1897 and '98.
25:20And he had 10 kids and lived in the building for about 10 years.
25:25He then sold the building and to a Mr. and Mrs. Thibodeau, and they had that for approximately 10 years.
25:36In the '20s, it was owned by the Zeiss family, who had a little notoriety because one of the children, when he became an adult, was a 5-star general.
25:48So that's a little bit of the background.
25:50Next, my family's involvement.
25:54My paternal grandfather and his 2 sons were, as I understand it, the first to use a home as a funeral home.
26:11Now, it wasn't the first funeral home in the city, but it was the first one that was an actual home.
26:18The others were like storefronts.
26:21And in the early '30s, so 1932, they rented 624 Eastern Avenue.
26:31It's a white building you might have seen, and used that as a funeral home.
26:38And also around that time, most people did not use funeral homes.
26:44They used funeral directors, but Many times, the majority of cases, people were laid out in their own home.
26:52So the funeral directors owned the equipment to go into the home and to set up things for the wake.
26:58So in 1938, my grandparents purchased 690 County Street and turned it into a funeral home.
27:11My father and his brother were assistants.
27:16My uncle actually moved to Rhode Island and worked for a big funeral company.
27:24But it was my grandparents and my father who lived there.
27:30It was my grandparents who built the second floor porches and sun parlor of the building.
27:41So that is what brings me here today.
27:44Because the second floor porches and sun parlor are deteriorated.
27:52There's some design flaws that we could— but it lasted a number of years nonetheless.
27:59But as Mike might attest, it's almost impractical to rebuild it the way that is, which requires bending beams, and it would be very, very expensive.
28:13So that's one of my limitations, is the expense.
28:18So what I'd like to share with you is that the original house is what we're aiming to accomplish.
28:30In terms of data, it's in the application.
28:34But I found 2 sources of proof, of evidence regarding what it looked like.
28:40One actually came from this book here.
28:44My son found this for me.
28:49It's in the application, but this is the book.
28:54River, a pictorial history.
28:55And then this picture here is a picture of the Rolling Rock.
28:59Incidentally, this was a giant quarry where this leaned right across a big, big opening.
29:09But in the left-hand side here is a building, and if you blow it up, you'll see it only has a one-story porch.
29:18And the second one is also interesting.
29:22Because years ago, uh, descendants of both the owner and the second family that lived there have visited, and my mother was helpful in allowing them to enter the house and see what it was like.
29:42So I have the data.
29:43So in 2017 A lady came to my house wanting to see my mother, who had passed.
29:56She had with her a photo and a Xerox copy of the photo.
30:04This is it.
30:04That's in the application.
30:11She left this with my son.
30:14I've preferred the photo.
30:15I don't know who it was.
30:17It sounds like it was a Thibodeau.
30:19My son who accepted this, not this son, another son, said it was a Thibault, but I think that was Thibodeau.
30:29So in the application, what I did is to take this picture, and I did a couple of things.
30:37I asked AI Could it describe the model of the car?
30:45And it did.
30:47It said it was a 1913 Ford Model T Tourer, plus or minus 1 year.
30:54So that's pretty accurate.
30:57So I worked with that and I did use AI to take the car out and to clean things up.
31:06A better picture.
31:07Was the picture clear enough?
31:09Because I brought more copies.
31:12Great presentation on all of your product line, in my opinion.
31:19I guess that's where we stand.
31:20Well, thank you for the presentation.
31:23That was excellent.
31:24Thank you for the history.
31:26That was good.
31:26As I stated earlier, I lived right in that area back in the '40s and and early '50s.
31:35So we all have had this documentation for a few weeks now and had plenty of time to research and look at it.
31:43Are there any comments?
31:45I think first of all, I was there today with Don, and Don was good enough to give me a brief review of everything.
31:50And I see the House will be very thankful to be free of this addition, in my view.
31:57I think it's horrible.
32:00What was missing in the application was what the details of what would, what would go on to return the porch and the porch roof to its original look.
32:11I didn't see anything about that.
32:12I didn't see any detail.
32:15Were you looking for a specific material list?
32:17Or were you looking for more of this design?
32:21Design?
32:21Yeah, design.
32:22Design of it.
32:23And I didn't see that.
32:24I saw— I mean, it's— you can make out the original photo.
32:27So you can see how the original porch looked.
32:29But I didn't see anything in the application about how we're going to get there.
32:32So that is actually the plan is to restore it back as closely as possible to the original design.
32:37So the details of that are what I think are missing.
32:40Okay.
32:43So what we— as far as— so a drawing, scoping out just a drawing, a drawing with specific— with the specifics of an architect's drawing or a draft drawing.
32:53I mean, for me personally, I may— the board may disagree, but for me personally, I think getting rid of that, bravo.
33:00Because it's just like, when you look at the original house and then you look at that mess that was— it's fallen into a state of disrepair.
33:06Yeah, even if it wasn't, even if it weren't, frankly, I think it would be worthwhile getting rid of.
33:10Yeah, but it's just bringing it— the details of bringing it back to that original state I think is what I would like to see.
33:18Okay.
33:18Yeah, a drawing.
33:19And I would think some materials.
33:22Yeah.
33:23The windows that are going to be used to replace it, are they going to be— no windows?
33:27There's no windows on it?
33:29Yeah, it's a basic— it's a very simple roof structure that would be going back in place because time period correct for that.
33:36That is a simplistic— pass these around.
33:38Yeah.
33:41That's a fairly simplistic design.
33:43So we would recreate the same hip structure roof that is there right now.
33:48So we would essentially just be marrying that roofline.
33:51In fact, we plan on reusing the original line where it was cut into the granite to re-establish the roofline down.
33:58So it would essentially be that roof again.
34:01The plan is to use domestic standard lumber as is to code now to properly support the weight in compliance with load, you know, for snow and things of that nature.
34:10But from an aesthetic standpoint, it would closely match that design.
34:14That is the detail that we're going for.
34:17We didn't have architectural plans on it because, quite honestly, architectural plan adds an exorbitant amount of cost, you know, to the project.
34:25But for approval, I think for us to be able to give approval for that, we would have to see what we're approving beyond the demolition.
34:33So if you could reference that picture, and that is the plan.
34:36So the details of this picture, I guess, would be what I would personally like to see.
34:40Okay, the specific— the specifics, so that we knew, so that we know clearly.
34:47So when it's done, we know what we know ahead of time, what it's going to look— what it's gonna look like prior to it.
34:53Could I share that we're really going through our budget to sure, bring this back to the historical significance it has.
35:05And hiring an architect is another several thousand dollars that I would prefer.
35:10I don't think an architect— this is a pretty simple thing.
35:12So I don't think an architect is necessarily necessary.
35:16This— yeah, the— I'm sorry, Jeremy, his son.
35:20Let me just put one detail in here.
35:23What you're saying makes complete sense.
35:24And I understand that a drawing or design would be useful at a time like this.
35:29But just to be specific, when we're talking about this design, like Mike mentioned, we're talking about really just the design of the roof of the porch.
35:39Our plan is to keep the posts and all of the first floor railings as they are.
35:45So that would not change.
35:47Yeah, the only thing is from the ceiling up.
35:49So the ceiling up, we would be removing that and we would just reestablishing that existing roofline.
35:55So essentially it would be a series of rafters with a support beam structure underneath, and then the standard plywood on top combined with flashing and the shingles.
36:05That would be the roof structure.
36:07Are you able to match the roofing material?
36:11As far as— yeah, I mean, we're gonna try and match as closely as possible, but obviously something that was built at that time compared to the current materials You know, and also we want to make sure that it's properly weather tight and that the porch itself in the front doesn't get damaged.
36:24So we are going to go with an architectural shingle to it.
36:27We are using domestic spruce lumber.
36:30Yeah.
36:31Right.
36:32Yeah.
36:35Any other comments?
36:37Are the— sorry, I'm sorry.
36:40The windows that were originally there before the roof and before the sun porch was added.
36:47Um, they're still there.
36:50They're still there inside the structure.
36:52Yeah, this was like a sticker on the outside.
36:55Yes.
36:55Yes.
36:56Okay.
36:56Yeah, this is essentially a sticker on top of that beautiful building, so we're peeling it off.
37:01Okay.
37:02Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.
37:05Yeah, so originally this window was turned into a door that led to the sump hole in the front, with each door going to the porch on each side.
37:18So this is going to go back to being a window, like it was.
37:25Same roofline, you know, it's following the same slope, you know, matching up to those existing posts that are there.
37:33So there will be one new window.
37:36Where the door was, correct?
37:38Yes.
37:39So that's going to have to be something that matches in kind to— what was that?
37:46The existing windows?
37:47Yeah, the windows in the property.
37:48And was— what was— where was— what was— how was the door inserted where a window was?
37:54What was removed?
37:56The granite.
37:56The granite beneath.
37:57So what's going to happen now when you replace— the door is returning to window, what's replacing the bottom?
38:04It'll be granite.
38:05Back to the granite.
38:06Okay, matching?
38:07Yes.
38:08Yep.
38:09Okay, see, those are the details.
38:10Those are some kind of details that I personally, for, for an approval process, would like to make subject to those details, subject to seeing those details ahead of time, so we can say this is what we're approving, this is what it's going to look like, rather than saying, you know, this is what it's going to look like.
38:27That's probably not quite good enough.
38:29But I mean, I applaud what you're doing.
38:31And I don't want to make it— I wouldn't want to make it, you know, more expensive.
38:35And we're not talking about an architect necessarily.
38:37It's just some kind of drafting of a— the contractor can very easily give us some hand drawings of what you intend to do.
38:50That's not an issue.
38:51We'll take a hand drawing.
38:52So would it— would an AI-generated drawing work in lieu of it?
38:55Because you've never seen my handwriting.
38:57So an AI— that's— AI is putting architects out of work these days.
39:01So I could do an AI with it.
39:04Yeah, not a problem.
39:05That would be— that'd be wonderful.
39:07Uh, are you pressing in time to get this constructed, going?
39:13Are you— because you're running out of summer?
39:16There is an element to that for sure, because the demo to it.
39:19We would prefer not to be doing the demolition in the fall.
39:23Yeah.
39:23Because there's a lot of protection that needs to occur on this property as well.
39:27So with the inclement weather, we prefer to do it during the summer, you know, when we have longer days and, you know, better weather conditions.
39:37Do we have any other comments or questions?
39:43It's a great project.
39:46Seeing it today and seeing this and then seeing what was there and just how dreadful that looked compared to what was originally built there, I applaud you.
39:58I mean, even though you're doing it because you have to, we're very happy you're doing it.
40:05Yes, you're to be commended for this.
40:08Truthfully, it's It's really, really good to see people taking the effort to restore.
40:18That house is the star of the neighborhood, as you know.
40:20That house is the star of the show.
40:22That's why we're salvaging as much material as we can.
40:24We plan on harvesting as part of the demolition project, saving all of the posts, saving as much of the beam structure as we can.
40:31So any material that can be repurposed and reused, that is the plan to do so, you know, to respect the property.
40:39I would, I would favor a proposal from the board, and a motion made that we release this building for construction through the building department, with the contingency that we get within a stated amount of time, some sort of an AI drawing, but we'll release through the building department to allow this to pursue.
41:08And I would say even that drawing would just— we could make it easily subject to the chairman's, you know, so you don't have to bring— you don't have to wait till the board meets again or whatever, just subject to approval by the chairman.
41:20Yeah, that's reasonable.
41:21I could get that back to you in a realistic time.
41:24That's great.
41:26Thank you.
41:27So, let's— do we have a motion to that effect?
41:33I move that we approve the project subject to the final drawing and specifications approved by the chairman.
41:42I'll second that motion.
41:43Okay, do we have a vote?
41:45Yes.
41:45Ken Chaddick, yes.
41:47Joyce, yes.
41:48Caroline, yes.
41:49Ryan Klein, yes.
41:50And, Rick Mancini, yes.
41:52Thank you very much.
41:52You're all good to go.
41:53Thank you.
41:53Thank you so much.
41:55Thank you.
41:55Thank you.
41:56Excited to see it, see this house back.
41:59Yeah, I was walking my dog, just came home just right in time to see you.
42:04Yes, you did, as I was about to walk on the property, I think.
42:09Once that's removed, the scale and scope of it, it's going to make it pop because removing that is just, you know, carving up there.
42:15It is, it is.
42:16Even when you see for the big granite in terms of the front stairs, those are 2 you want to Huge pieces of granite, you know.
42:24So this, that's not going to move.
42:26It's going to be a showcase again.
42:28Yes, it is.
42:28We love that.
42:29There we go.
42:30You do.
42:30I can see that you do.
42:31I've been there most of my life.
42:33I can see that you do.
42:34And thank you so much for putting the time and effort into it and coming before us.
42:38Thank you.
42:39Thank you.
42:39Thank you.
42:42Okay.
42:44Well, that was good.
42:48Next is, this is going to be another interesting discussion.
42:52We have City Councilor Christopher Peckham here, and he's going to talk about a stone marker that's been discovered by Councilor Peckham.
43:05And he's going to— I'm going to stop at this point.
43:08I don't want to take away all your thunder.
43:10If you could just introduce yourself.
43:13Better dressed than I do myself, Rick.
43:18Good evening.
43:19Christopher Peckham, City Council.
43:21So I want to, I want to start this by actually mentioning we've had this conversation, Mr. Caravo's property.
43:29I went to Talbot Middle School.
43:30I've always been into history, my parents, my father, my grandmother.
43:34That is one of my top 3 favorite homes in the city.
43:36So to sit here and watch that it's going to go back to its original state is actually exciting.
43:43I want to preface this stone by thanking the commissioners, you, Mr. Chair— Co-Chair Lima.
43:50I'm a firm believer that Fall River is only going to get ahead of itself by harnessing its history.
43:56I say it all the time.
43:57We look around the city today, it becomes unrecognizable.
44:01And when this city was at its best, in its heyday, was our textiles, our manufacturing.
44:07We provided jobs.
44:09People came here and worked.
44:11Why I say that is, is I believe the stone that I've come across could be a great segue into big things within the city of Fall River.
44:21I would go on the market-rate housing rant as to how I want to see jobs and industry back in, back in our mills, because that's what's going to be beneficial for the city.
44:29But that's a conversation for later on down the road.
44:32To touch upon this stone, back in 2020, Mike McHugh from Freetown had reached out to me.
44:39He had known that I was a history buff, for lack of a better term, and he reached out to me and he told me about this marker and begged me to save it.
44:50So in 2020, I went up, I checked out where this marker is, um, would like to leave the location undisclosed at this time.
45:01For obvious reasons, we don't need it to disappear.
45:04But I was notified as to where the stone was.
45:06And I went up and I located a property that needed taken care of by the city of Fall River.
45:12Me and my son went up, we took care of the property, and we had relocated the stone.
45:18The stone was placed there in 1659.
45:20And I don't know if you have the history that I had sent you, Rick?
45:22We do.
45:23Yes, I'm gonna pull it up here.
45:28So on April 2nd, 1659, a group of 26 proprietors purchased approximately 16,000 acres from the Wampanoag sachems Wamsutta Alexander and Tituppanee— I had to look that up on how to pronounce it— which was Wetamoe.
45:44The land became what we know as know today as the Freeman's Purchase, um, and later form much of present-day Freetown and Fall River.
45:54Um, to my understanding, the Freeman's— recording in progress.
45:57Fantastic.
45:58Um, to my understanding, the 26 plots of land ran down towards Rodman Street and then were further up north towards Freetown.
46:08I would like to save this monument because in my opinion this is one of the most important pieces of our history that describes our settlement here.
46:21I go to Plymouth Rock, and I don't know if that's the rock that everybody stepped off of the boat, and I really don't know, but I can tell you that William Brewster, Love Brewster, Mr. Gage, all people that actually stepped foot off this Mayflower and settled here and created what we enjoy today, place that stone in the ground.
46:43I know, Rick, you have reached out to the state to get their opinion on it.
46:47I want to move on this ASAP.
46:50I think it's a great thing for the city.
46:52And again, I think this is a piece of history that will bring Fall River to the forefront again to get back to where it was.
47:01I commend you guys for what you do.
47:03I really do.
47:04Because the history of the city is everything to me.
47:07I've probably bored Rick over the past couple of weeks with many stories that I have about the city, but I love it, and I love what you do.
47:15I love the architecture.
47:17We need to harness that.
47:18We do.
47:19We have to get people in here and show them our architecture in the North End, because there's no other place in New England or the United States that's similar to Fall River.
47:28But I think this stone is is the starting piece to that.
47:33So whatever you guys can do, and I know we've been working very closely on this, whatever you can do to help me and get that to the Farver Historical Society would be fantastic.
47:42That way people can enjoy it.
47:43That thing's been in the ground for hundreds of years and nobody's really seen it.
47:49I think when you put your eyes on it, you, you feel the excitement of the history of this area.
47:56And for myself, I go back to that time in my head to where everybody was a cooper smith or a clothier, a blacksmith.
48:04That was grit and determination.
48:05That's what— no, my cane didn't like that.
48:08It was grit and determination that built this city, and that rock is— that monument is an example of that.
48:13So I appreciate you guys.
48:14Thank you.
48:17I think you could be free to say that the city is now actively helping us to remove that and move that, and it's going to occur.
48:26We're not divulging the location, but it should occur on Friday morning.
48:31And that the Historical Society is going to store the monument and arrange some sort of an arrangement.
48:40Maybe you can relay that.
48:43You're going to display it of some sort of display.
48:47Yes.
48:47Yeah.
48:48So it is working.
48:50And thanks for being informed.
48:55Councillor Peckham called a few weeks ago and said, Rick, I got this thing, maybe we should look at it.
49:01Let's see if we can work it retrieving it.
49:03And we should have it in our hands on Friday morning.
49:07I'm just waiting for one email.
49:09I will reach out tomorrow morning to that person for that email, which would give us the go-ahead.
49:15I do want to add, this would have gotten done in 2020, but COVID hit and everything got shut down.
49:22So I wasn't able to get to it.
49:23And I had a little stint off the council in between.
49:26And this has been on the top of— it's been on my mind ever since 2020 to get it out of there and save it and preserve it.
49:32So I appreciate you guys.
49:33Thank you.
49:34Okay, great.
49:35Thank you.
49:35Well, thank you very much for the presentation.
49:37Thank you.
49:38Thank you.
49:39Have a great day.
49:41Thank you.
49:44Okay, well, no further comments?
49:49Move right along?
49:50Okay, it's been a long evening, huh?
49:52We'll just very quickly, we'll go over the old business.
49:57The status of the Historical Commission's annual report is all being taken care of.
50:02I personally have been having problems getting through to the Mass Historical Commission.
50:08Whenever I send anything in bulk, I think they have a tremendous— I'm thinking a series of firewalls.
50:16If I send a quick email, it gets to them.
50:19If I send any document, they never seem to get it.
50:23So, Felicia is going to take care of this for us.
50:27I spoke to them within the last week, and I've tried twice, and it's just not getting through.
50:34So, it just might be my inability to handle the computer.
50:40Little Theater, that's moving along very well.
50:44The contractor is taking care of the roof.
50:48He's made a request for a few payments for materials only.
50:53He's got quite a bit of the roof completed.
50:56He's got probably 2 more months of work.
51:00But, as he stated, it's going to be good for another 100 years once he's finished with it.
51:08Any questions?
51:10None?
51:10Move along.
51:11Okay.
51:12Central Fire Station.
51:14I know that the project went out for bid, and the bids were due.
51:19I have not heard.
51:21Hopefully, I'll have some information tomorrow, but I do not know what's going on.
51:25And, that's just the Bedford Street side at this point.
51:28The drawings and documents have not been completed for the remaining portion or the interior of the building.
51:35The only documents that did go out for bid was the Bedford Street front.
51:41Okay?
51:43Let's see.
51:46On the Anawan fire station, fire station, I was by there yesterday.
51:49They've got probably half of the windows are in.
51:53There were windows on the first floor that have sort of an arch on the top.
52:00And what the company did is decided to send the arch through in plastic.
52:06So the contractor is well aware that it's being watched closely, and they sent the windows back, and the manufacturer is going to redo the windows as per specifications.
52:19So, the contractor is really helping us here.
52:22This is really working well.
52:25Let's see.
52:25The Bank Street Armory, we're moving right along.
52:28There's a meeting tomorrow at 3:30 with Mr. Deckel from the Historic Commission.
52:36If there's anyone that wants to attend, invited to.
52:40We just can't not have more than 3— myself and 2 others— otherwise we'll have a meeting.
52:46So if you 2 other commissioners want to show up there, that's fine.
52:50What we're going to do is just go over the armory, the interior, what it needs, because we have this funding now from the state and from CPC to do a complete study on the property, total study.
53:04That's good.
53:06The '40s— any questions?
53:09None.
53:09All right.
53:10The '40C project, ironically enough, there was some interchanging of emails between the Preservation Society and the PAL, Public Archaeologist Laboratories, and the final commitment from preservation.
53:32We, from the Historical Society, at the Historical Commission, found no real issues with the drawings and with their Form Bs.
53:43But, I guess they hadn't gotten together, I guess, the Preservation Society.
53:49So, they did.
53:50They had a little discussion and they've agreed that the commitment is made.
53:55The Form Bs are satisfactory.
53:57So, now it's a matter of getting together between the Historical Commission.
54:02We'll get a presentation in the next month or so, hopefully, and we'll move right along with the 40C expansion.
54:11There's a lot to do with that.
54:12We've got to go before the Historical Commission, Mass Historical Commission.
54:18We also have to do a lot of public meetings.
54:20Meetings.
54:21Who is the we, Rick?
54:23We being Preservation Society and Historical Commission.
54:26Historical Commission.
54:28Yeah, we're working as a team on this.
54:30Okay.
54:30And does the state look at both?
54:32I'm just, I'm so familiar with Rhode Island's process that I, and I understand Massachusetts is somewhat different.
54:40Is it the Historical Commission that makes the application going forward?
54:46I know they do it with the Preservation Society, but I mean as far as governmentally, is the Preservation Society just there as an advisory capacity and it's the Historical Commission that is in fact— Yes.
54:58Okay.
55:00And what has to— again, it goes to the Mass Historical Commission, but the city needs a commission, which we are, to move this along and to put it together.
55:13So what it is, it's a team effort between the two.
55:16The original 40-seat program that we have was put together primarily by the Preservation Society 14, 15 years ago.
55:26And so they're working in concert with us to get this accomplished again.
55:32And the final say-so, the final approval is done by the City Council?
55:36It's by the City Council, 2/3 vote, yes.
55:392/3 vote of the city council?
55:40Of the city council.
55:41So, we need 7 members of the city council to give it a blessing, in order for the expansion to take place.
55:47Okay.
55:49And, we're looking, at this point, at an additional 50 dwellings.
55:53Within the same district?
55:55Within the same.
55:55Is it going to be a different district?
55:57No, no, it's the same district.
55:58Just an expansion of the same district?
56:00Yes.
56:04Yeah, thanks.
56:05Good.
56:06All right, let's see.
56:08Again, if there's anyone here that wants to volunteer for any of these projects that we're doing or any that we have, anything we have, significant structures of this, you mentioned earlier you want to get on the 40C.
56:24Yeah, I was involved with that in Rhode Island, and so I would like to just— Absolutely.
56:29Involved.
56:31Okay, anything else?
56:34Want to— any other old business or any discussion on any item?
56:39Okay, then let's have a motion to adjourn.
56:45Motion to adjourn at 7:02 PM.
56:48I second.
56:49Okay, we have had a motion to adjourn and adjourned.